My approach to blogging is pretty simple. When I have an idea I email it to myself. My mail server deposits these in a special folder which I then dig through when I am ready to write something. Some ideas don’t get written up and they start to attract dust. I am going to clean the closet and write whatever I can think of about the ideas that piled up. Here is one that Sandeep and I actually talked about some time ago, but I can’t now figure out where I wanted to go with it.
Shouldn’t gang wars end quickly? All you have to do is kill the leader of the rival gang. Instead, at least anectdotally, gang wars are more like wars of attrition. You have the low-level thugs picking each other off and the leaders are relatively safe. Why?
The leader embodies some valuable capital: control of his organization. Even if you could decapitate the rival gang by killing the leader it may be preferred to weaken him by taking out enough of his henchmen. Then you can offer him a deal. Maybe its a merger, maybe its a collusive agreement, but either way the point is that the coalition is more valuable with the opposing hierarchy intact than in disarray. Knowing all of this, each gang leader feels perfectly safe even in the midst of an all-out war.
Under this theory, gang wars break out because a rival has become too powerful and it is no longer clear which is the dominant gang. Its a necessary part of renegotiating the pre-existing power-sharing arrangement in light of a new balance of power.
26 comments
Comments feed for this article
March 15, 2010 at 12:39 pm
Matt
So Michael Corleone was not very smart, I guess.
March 15, 2010 at 12:45 pm
jeff
I think Puzo gets the blame 🙂
March 15, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Paul Johnson
Or the second in command is more ruthless. You’d be worse off killing the top guy. The recent New Yorker piece on Rio gangs described such a case.
March 15, 2010 at 1:00 pm
jeff
Similar idea: Suppose that killing the top guy breaks the organization into multiple subhierarchies. The leaders of these new organizations were the vice-presidents of the old one. Now each of these internalizes less of the negative externality from continuing the conflict and so the war will only get worse.
So these two ideas explain organizational design in gangs. You want the organization to have a built-in “poison pill.”
March 15, 2010 at 1:07 pm
gwern
Perhaps the length is a trade-off for low intensity.
If every single gang member got up and met at the local square, armed to the teeth with rifles & RPGs, they could expect that to provoke a massive reaction from non-gang members: the authorities will show up with paramilitary (or military) units, arrest & convict the lot, declare martial law and begin house-to-house searches, etc.
The meetup at the square would quickly resolve things in a matter of minutes, and maybe with relatively few deaths (iirc, from my anthropological readings about the Yanomano and New Guinea highlanders, tribal ‘battles’ are decided after a few injuries or deaths). But the consequences are untenable.
On the other hand, an attack every couple days for months may not provoke much of a reaction. (What *can* the authorities do about it? Where would the SWAT teams go?)
March 15, 2010 at 1:48 pm
Anonymous
A much simpler explanation is that there is a repeated game between multiple gangs and gang leaders do not want to be targeted. It’s an equilibrium with multiple players.
March 15, 2010 at 3:04 pm
Tim Randall
This is pretty close to how I see it.
As a leader, you don’t want the other gang to attack you, therefore you don’t attack the other gang’s leader directly.
March 15, 2010 at 8:32 pm
jeff
the challenge then is to explain why wars happen but they don’t end decisively.
March 15, 2010 at 1:51 pm
irv
Gang violence generally has one of two purposes: To retaliate for perceived slights, or to “send a message” (usually the message being “fear me” or “I don’t fear you”).
Wars are extended samplings of both purposes. One guy does something someone in a different gang doesn’t like. The other guy “sends a message” back that he didn’t like it. The first one retaliates because he didn’t like the violence of the just received message. The second one retaliates against the retaliation.
It lasts a long time because there is no strategic objective, just a series of largely unplanned and inconclusive skirmishes that mostly serve to make both gangs angry.
Meanwhile, the leaders are relatively safe because being good at keeping themselves alive is one of the skills that makes them leaders.
March 15, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Keith Henson
Gang wars arise from the same psychological mechanisms that evolved in the close-to-constant wars between hunter gatherer groups.
In those days, population build up and environmental variation necessitated periodic population reductions.
Models of this situation indicates that genes were (on average) better off to induce the warriors to make war on neighbors than to starve. The simplest model indicates genes for war behavior were 37% more likely to appear in the next generation.
The mechanism seems to be switched on by a perception of a bleak future. It seems to work by turning up the “gain” on the circulation of xenophobic (often religious) memes.
In these models, “war mode” is switched off by the future looking brighter, either the rains coming back or enough people dying in the was so the resources are not strained.
The bleak environment in which gangs are a problem doesn’t change much so wars can go on for generations.
Keith Henson
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2006/4/17/194059/296
March 15, 2010 at 4:23 pm
Scott Slusher
“All you have to do is kill the leader of the rival gang.” That’s probably easier said than done. Just by having risen to the top of the organization, you can infer that he’s either more ruthless, intelligent or both than the typical member–a harder target. Also, he’s more insulated. The low-level soldiers are exposed on the corners, the lieutenants are shuttling between the corners, but the leader can be barricaded away. Once a leader knows a war has started, he’s first going to use whatever resources his organization has to protect himself.
The Michael Corleone example was mentioned above, but at the end of Godfather II, he’s actually VERY smart. By simultaneously taking out the heads of the other families, he prevents them from “going to the mattresses” and a war of attrition. Pulling it off, however, is easier for an author than an actual gang leader.
A blitz attack on the leader would be high-reward/high-risk, and even if successful would have longer term risks for later rounds.
If successful in Round 1 — Rival A is eliminated and attrition is avoided.
If unsuccessful in Round 1 — Attrition begins, but it will be especially severe because Rival A would be extremely unlikely to compromise or trust in a negotiated settlement.
Regardless of the success in Round 1, in Rounds 2+, the leader who opted for sniping a rival has significantly increased his risk because other gang leaders would have to assume that the same strategy would be played (on them) and so they would have strong incentive to pre-empt. In street parlance, “put the Mad Dog down.” In fact, the more often the strategy is used, the greater the incentive for other leaders to move against the player using it.
March 15, 2010 at 6:52 pm
WireMan
Go watch the Wire (HBO show, partially about gangs in Baltimore), and you’ll find out 🙂
December 2, 2012 at 12:53 am
Kokak
This one is an inspiration peslonarly to uncover out much more associated to this subject. I need to confess your knowledge prolonged my sentiments as well as I’m going to right now take your feed to remain up to date on every coming weblog posts you might possibly create. You are worthy of thanks for a job completely achieved!
March 15, 2010 at 6:53 pm
tomhynes
Border wars last a long time. It isn’t worth fighting an all out war, but if there is disputed territory every once in a while you slap the other guy a bit.
Perhaps gang wars are wars over drug selling territory. This is my turf, that is your turf. We keep testing each other by encroaching at the border.
March 15, 2010 at 10:22 pm
Mr. Sensitive
Sounds like the White People really have some keen insight on Gang Wars.
Keep up the good work, townies.
March 15, 2010 at 10:44 pm
jeff
🙂
March 16, 2010 at 7:26 am
Marc Roston
Two companies in equilibrium in an oligopoly where neither company has access to courts to enforce contracts or property rights. Presumably, they reached such an equilibrium through a long trial and error process of self monitoring and enforcement. This statistically speaking, could be viewed as constructing a strong Bayesian prior about their relationship through trial and error.
A random outlier event says the prior could be wrong. How do you test it? A whole lot of peripheral, low cost tests. Enough of these can confirm or reject the hypothesis, but it takes a long time. Probably still lower cost than killing the top rival, and constructing new relationship with second in command.
(Just for fun, think if GS and JPM had to operate with each other without recourse to enforceable contracts! Trader at JPM fails to post enough collateral, what happens? Does head of desk at GS kill trader at JPM, or does head of desk at JPM kill own trader to signal to GS that they still follow the rules? What if JPM thinks their guy is a great trader who made an honest mistake, so they won’t kill him, and won’t let GS kill him? GS cannot roll over on this breach. GS at least takes some shots at the protected guy…you can see how this goes on forever, but no one wants to kill Dimon and Blankfein, at least for a long time.)
March 16, 2010 at 9:41 am
Keith Henson
In the stone age the situation that underlies wars was almost always a resource shortage. Killing a lot of the local population always improved the resource to human population ratio.
Under a situation where a lot of the population is going to starve, wars make sense _from the viewpoint of genes_.
Wars are irrational from the viewpoint of the individual.
No problem, brain mechanisms constructed by genes make warriors (and whole communicating populations) irrational when the gene survival situation calls for it.
March 18, 2014 at 10:15 pm
Arek
سینا گفت:oh man ozve in baziam , va khelyi dargiram ba khodam ta tarkesh konam , ama khelyi sakhte va do delam , be hame tosie mikonam ke ozv nashin chon mesle zalo0 miofte tu zendegito0n va uno az beyn mibare
March 16, 2010 at 11:04 am
Cleaning The Closet: Why Do Gang Wars Last So Long? « Cheap Talk - Viewsflow
[…] RT @crime_economist: Why do gang wars last so long: (HT: Marginal Revolution)Close […]
March 16, 2010 at 7:18 pm
Top Posts — WordPress.com
[…] Cleaning The Closet: Why Do Gang Wars Last So Long? My approach to blogging is pretty simple. When I have an idea I email it to myself. My mail server deposits these […] […]
March 17, 2010 at 9:50 am
Shrike
Or maybe they are an elaborately planned ‘shooting tree’ -a chain of events targeting one gang-member in particular, who may be too much of a hot potato to ‘whack’ directly. And hence need a certain ‘depth’ to make it look arbitrary.
(As put forth by Prof. Charlie Eppes in Numb3rs, season 2, episode 12: “The O.G”)
April 28, 2010 at 7:57 pm
Besa Lighting
Watch a TV show to learn about gang warfare? Sure thing.
December 2, 2012 at 12:33 am
Vinodkumar
Hey I am so thrilled I found your weabgpe, I really found you by accident, while I was searching on Yahoo for something else, Nonetheless I am here now and would just like to say cheers for a tremendous post and a all round interesting blog (I also love the theme/design), I done28099t have time to look over it all at the minute but I have bookmarked it and also included your RSS feeds, so when I have time I will be back to read a great deal more, Please do keep up the superb work.
June 11, 2010 at 3:59 am
homes
Hi, nice post! I really like reading it.
Keep the good work!
March 26, 2014 at 8:37 pm
Jolie
A server colocation facility will have greater bandwidth and better power provisioning that you could most likely afford on your own.
Moreover, it was believed that a dash of mistletoe mounted in silver brought
good luck to the one who wears it as a jewel.
Bandolino boots hug your calf for excellent warmth and consolation even though
producing all your fashionista pals intrigued.