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	<title>Comments on: Microbarter</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cheaptalk.org/2012/09/24/microbarter/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cheaptalk.org/2012/09/24/microbarter/</link>
	<description>A blog about economics, politics and the random interests of forty-something professors</description>
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		<title>By: italexpress</title>
		<link>http://cheaptalk.org/2012/09/24/microbarter/#comment-24965</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[italexpress]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 08:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cheaptalk.org/?p=12092#comment-24965</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like the important details you give you in your articles.I will bookmark your website and check all over again the following usually.I&#039;m somewhat certainly I will realize lots of recent stuff correct the following! Superior luck for your future!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the important details you give you in your articles.I will bookmark your website and check all over again the following usually.I&#8217;m somewhat certainly I will realize lots of recent stuff correct the following! Superior luck for your future!</p>
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		<title>By: jeff</title>
		<link>http://cheaptalk.org/2012/09/24/microbarter/#comment-18290</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jeff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2012 21:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cheaptalk.org/?p=12092#comment-18290</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Production is more efficient than a pure transfer. No value is created when I give you money. 

The reasons you cite are problems with barter as a method of exchange, I.e after production has taken place. But attention and information are produced at the moment they are exchanged. So this gain can offset the other problems. Indeed they must otherwise you would be paying a subscription to me and your favorite cable tv shows. 

I am not saying the micro part if it is necessary in this conclusion but in practice it seems to be a part of it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Production is more efficient than a pure transfer. No value is created when I give you money. </p>
<p>The reasons you cite are problems with barter as a method of exchange, I.e after production has taken place. But attention and information are produced at the moment they are exchanged. So this gain can offset the other problems. Indeed they must otherwise you would be paying a subscription to me and your favorite cable tv shows. </p>
<p>I am not saying the micro part if it is necessary in this conclusion but in practice it seems to be a part of it.</p>
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		<title>By: emir</title>
		<link>http://cheaptalk.org/2012/09/24/microbarter/#comment-18289</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[emir]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2012 20:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cheaptalk.org/?p=12092#comment-18289</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jeff –
Why do you say that microbarter is more efficient than micropayments? In general, barter is typically strictly less efficient than payments (because of indivisible goods and because of the coincidence-of-wants problem) and barter is never strictly more efficient than payments. What is it about the micro- scale that changes this?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff –<br />
Why do you say that microbarter is more efficient than micropayments? In general, barter is typically strictly less efficient than payments (because of indivisible goods and because of the coincidence-of-wants problem) and barter is never strictly more efficient than payments. What is it about the micro- scale that changes this?</p>
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		<title>By: DaFisch (@DaFisch)</title>
		<link>http://cheaptalk.org/2012/09/24/microbarter/#comment-18285</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DaFisch (@DaFisch)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cheaptalk.org/?p=12092#comment-18285</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Have you guys ever heard of flatter? flattr.com is quiet widespread over here in europe]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you guys ever heard of flatter? flattr.com is quiet widespread over here in europe</p>
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		<title>By: jamesoswald</title>
		<link>http://cheaptalk.org/2012/09/24/microbarter/#comment-18272</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jamesoswald]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2012 13:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cheaptalk.org/?p=12092#comment-18272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a case of quickly diminishing returns.  Watching one advertisement  or doing one survey isn&#039;t a big deal for most people, but after 100 or so, it gets really old.  Even the very poor can&#039;t keep up a good rate of captcha solving for ever long:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/26/technology/26captcha.html?_r=2src=me&amp;ref=technology&amp;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a case of quickly diminishing returns.  Watching one advertisement  or doing one survey isn&#8217;t a big deal for most people, but after 100 or so, it gets really old.  Even the very poor can&#8217;t keep up a good rate of captcha solving for ever long:<br />
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/26/technology/26captcha.html?_r=2src=me&#038;ref=technology&#038;amp" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/26/technology/26captcha.html?_r=2src=me&#038;ref=technology&#038;amp</a>;</p>
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		<title>By: twicker</title>
		<link>http://cheaptalk.org/2012/09/24/microbarter/#comment-18268</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[twicker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cheaptalk.org/?p=12092#comment-18268</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting article, and all very interesting comments.

Jeff: I really liked the part about micropayments and microbarter; I&#039;ll just point out that Hulu has been doing this for awhile (every now and then, to watch a show, you can either choose to watch ads *or* participate in a &quot;short consumer survey&quot; to have an &quot;ad-free experience&quot;).

As to trying to do this on a bigger scale, I think there&#039;s someone out there - beyond just the survey world - who&#039;s trying to do this. I don&#039;t remember who, and I&#039;m not even sure exactly what to Google for it, but someone came up with the idea that, if advertisers really wanted our attention, we should be able to sell it to them.

As for surveys and the problem of people with the least value for their time, there are some companies that have found the solution to that one: pay people differentially. So - yes, the person-with-low-time-value gets paid a pittance (and there are lots of them), but more valuable people get paid more money. One company I know of even has doctors, lawyers, etc., on their panels; users just have to pay much more to have access to them (far beyond what most people would think of as &quot;micro,&quot; and not bartering but actual transfer of cash).

Again - very interesting stuff. Thanks! :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article, and all very interesting comments.</p>
<p>Jeff: I really liked the part about micropayments and microbarter; I&#8217;ll just point out that Hulu has been doing this for awhile (every now and then, to watch a show, you can either choose to watch ads *or* participate in a &#8220;short consumer survey&#8221; to have an &#8220;ad-free experience&#8221;).</p>
<p>As to trying to do this on a bigger scale, I think there&#8217;s someone out there &#8211; beyond just the survey world &#8211; who&#8217;s trying to do this. I don&#8217;t remember who, and I&#8217;m not even sure exactly what to Google for it, but someone came up with the idea that, if advertisers really wanted our attention, we should be able to sell it to them.</p>
<p>As for surveys and the problem of people with the least value for their time, there are some companies that have found the solution to that one: pay people differentially. So &#8211; yes, the person-with-low-time-value gets paid a pittance (and there are lots of them), but more valuable people get paid more money. One company I know of even has doctors, lawyers, etc., on their panels; users just have to pay much more to have access to them (far beyond what most people would think of as &#8220;micro,&#8221; and not bartering but actual transfer of cash).</p>
<p>Again &#8211; very interesting stuff. Thanks! <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: kerokan</title>
		<link>http://cheaptalk.org/2012/09/24/microbarter/#comment-18263</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kerokan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2012 06:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cheaptalk.org/?p=12092#comment-18263</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Alex F makes a lot of very good points, but I am not sure that adverse selection is such a big problem, b/c in the digital world companies have a lot of data on us that can help them figure out who we really are (a housewife, a student, or a businessman). This data ranges from our past searches (Google) and purchases (Amazon) to our email addresses (.edu)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex F makes a lot of very good points, but I am not sure that adverse selection is such a big problem, b/c in the digital world companies have a lot of data on us that can help them figure out who we really are (a housewife, a student, or a businessman). This data ranges from our past searches (Google) and purchases (Amazon) to our email addresses (.edu)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Alex F</title>
		<link>http://cheaptalk.org/2012/09/24/microbarter/#comment-18262</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex F]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2012 05:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cheaptalk.org/?p=12092#comment-18262</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Why is there not already a market which enables you to sell your valuable asset (attention, information etc) for money?&quot;

These markets exist, sort of.  If you google &quot;make money answering surveys&quot; you can find a million sites like this one:  http://www.swagbucks.com/

But the reason this hasn&#039;t taken off seems pretty obvious.  There&#039;s an extreme adverse selection problem when you try to set up a market to pay people for their time: you get people with the lowest value of time.  That&#039;s fine for hiring unskilled labor, but it&#039;s probably not who advertisers want.  I&#039;m guessing the only people who fill out these surveys are housewives, teenagers, and unemployed people. 

By using barter instead of cash, you can attract a more selected sample who value the thing you&#039;re trading.  The Wall Street Journal can keep its ad rates high because kids on summer break want to trade their attention for cash, not for WSJ articles.  If the advertisers tried to cut out the middleman and paid people directly to look at ads, it would get a slightly different sample of people.

I wonder if this is why Amazon defaulted its new Kindles to be ad-supported -- not because too few people would pay extra to avoid ads, but because the people who would are the ones advertisers wanted. 

(There&#039;s also a policy angle here.  This is why it can be more effective for a welfare agency to provide in-kind services instead of cash transfers even when the agency has no comparative advantage in provision.  With in-kind services -- low quality housing, say -- people who don&#039;t need the service don&#039;t bother signing up.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why is there not already a market which enables you to sell your valuable asset (attention, information etc) for money?&#8221;</p>
<p>These markets exist, sort of.  If you google &#8220;make money answering surveys&#8221; you can find a million sites like this one:  <a href="http://www.swagbucks.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.swagbucks.com/</a></p>
<p>But the reason this hasn&#8217;t taken off seems pretty obvious.  There&#8217;s an extreme adverse selection problem when you try to set up a market to pay people for their time: you get people with the lowest value of time.  That&#8217;s fine for hiring unskilled labor, but it&#8217;s probably not who advertisers want.  I&#8217;m guessing the only people who fill out these surveys are housewives, teenagers, and unemployed people. </p>
<p>By using barter instead of cash, you can attract a more selected sample who value the thing you&#8217;re trading.  The Wall Street Journal can keep its ad rates high because kids on summer break want to trade their attention for cash, not for WSJ articles.  If the advertisers tried to cut out the middleman and paid people directly to look at ads, it would get a slightly different sample of people.</p>
<p>I wonder if this is why Amazon defaulted its new Kindles to be ad-supported &#8212; not because too few people would pay extra to avoid ads, but because the people who would are the ones advertisers wanted. </p>
<p>(There&#8217;s also a policy angle here.  This is why it can be more effective for a welfare agency to provide in-kind services instead of cash transfers even when the agency has no comparative advantage in provision.  With in-kind services &#8212; low quality housing, say &#8212; people who don&#8217;t need the service don&#8217;t bother signing up.)</p>
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